Kohlmayer and Bakala: Instead of quotas, women need a good support system

For the past 20 years, Hospodářské noviny has organized the “TOP Women of the Czech Republic” poll, which recognizes the best female entrepreneurs, managers, and members of the public sector in the Czech Republic. To mark this anniversary, we have begun a series of interviews, the first of which is with Michaela Bakala, the poll's patron, and Katarína Kohlmayer, CFO of KKCG Group, who won the poll’s “TOP Manager” category in 2023.

The goal of the “TOP Women of the Czech Republic” project is to highlight successful women from both the private and public sectors. The stories of these women are intended to inspire others and raise awareness on topics such as equal job opportunities and the inclusion of women in decision-making roles.

Katarína, as one of our winners, you were also inducted into our poll's Hall of Fame. What did this recognition mean to you? KK: I was very surprised because I felt like I should have been in the competition for longer to really earn it. So it was a big surprise on many levels. On the one hand, I’m happy, of course, that someone noticed my work and considered it good. But along with my previous placements in the poll, it also helped me, because I hadn’t been in the Czech Republic for long. I had been working in London, and this helped me build a network and make friends here. Thanks to the poll, I met many successful, kind women, and it helped me integrate into the Czech business environment.

Michaela, is this the kind of feedback you hear from other award recipients as well? MB: It makes me really happy. But I wouldn’t call “TOP Women” a competition—I prefer to say it's more of a poll or a ranking. We have an expert jury that selects the winners, so it’s not based on personal likes or dislikes but rather on the careful deliberation of experts. They review the nominations each year and choose the winners and those that are recognized accordingly.

The poll is approaching its 20th anniversary, but you became its patron a bit later, right? MB: That’s right. I was part of the team that renamed the poll and unified it under the title “TOP Women of the Czech Republic” to make clear that it’s not just about managers, but also includes women entrepreneurs and those from the public sphere who have a significant impact on what happens in our country, be it in politics, philanthropy, or science. A few years later, we added a startup category, which is unique because it features businesses that still need to prove their long-term viability. Many interesting projects have emerged, and I think it has been a huge opportunity for these startup founders to present themselves and engage with women already leading large national companies. Our success in life often depends on a team of people or on chance. For example, it can depend on someone who might give us an interesting offer, pose an interesting question, or provide feedback. I believe that this poll has certainly served that purpose.

What do you see as the added value of this poll? MB: It’s the fact that the poll facilitates meetings between people, largely women, who may compete in some ways, but also generally support each other and build business, social, and personal connections. Katarína and I are a good example of that. Award-winning women can provide journalists like you with content: they provide opportunities to follow lives and careers that may inspire other women. I also think that the position of women in the Czech Republic has been heading in the right direction, in part due to this poll. I still believe this.

You’ve hinted at a friendly bond between the two of you. Could you share how that happened? KK: We met through Zdeněk (Zdeněk Bakala is a businessman and owner of the Economia publishing house, which Hospodářské noviny belong to– editor’s note). I think I’ve known the Bakala family for about 25 years now. MB: You’ve known Zdeněk longer than I have. KK: Yes, that’s true. I was there when Zdeněk and Michaela started dating, he introduced us. I believe it was at a celebration of the purchase of OKD, which you attended with your “Miss” beauty pageant winners. MB: Yes, that was the very beginning both of Zdeněk’s career in terms of his largest investments and the start of my involvement in the “Miss” pageant. I believe it was in 2005 when I aired my first Czech “Miss”. Circumstances brought us together, and then a friendship developed that began with Zdeněk and Katarína’s work relationship but grew to include the sharing of news from not only our professional lives, but our personal lives as well. We also follow each other's children's successes and challenges, of course.

Your friendship predates the “TOP Women” poll itself, which started in 2006 and will therefore be celebrating its 20th anniversary in 2025. How has the poll changed over time? MB: It has evolved naturally along with the growth of the Economia publishing house. We were trying new things, reassessing various projects and products... it goes hand in hand, and from my position as a board member, I sensed that this was something worth paying more attention to, from the position of content as well as commercially and socially. We worked with the editorial team and the entire staff to play around with renaming the poll, so it would be clear what it was about, ensuring it was clearly defined commercially and, of course, in terms of content.

What are the main criteria that determine the winners of the poll? MB: It's not often talked about—or maybe just not emphasized—that the results of the poll should reflect the particulars of that year, for instance, a specific achievement or important event such as a company going public or being sold, or an appointment to a top-level position. It’s about a very specific success, but it can also reward long-term contributions, for example in philanthropy or science. There’s always a story there which is recognized by the expert jury, composed of men and women from various fields and including the leadership of Hospodářské noviny. I always enjoy it when a hidden story emerges, like with some of the startups I mentioned. Many of these women come to thank me for continuing to organize this poll, telling me it’s an event they look forward to where they meet interesting people in a different atmosphere— one that is not competitive but rather social, friendly, and professional. It’s nice that once a year, we have a chance to catch up. Everyone is busy but some women even fly in for the event from abroad. This has been my case for the last few years. I always make the time and look forward to it. I believe that the companies of the finalists are proud of their employees and colleagues; they take notice and end up even promoting the recognition as part of their own PR.

How did KKCG recognize your win? KK: They congratulated me. I think they were proud of me. Even Mr. Komárek congratulated me, and I received a large bouquet of flowers. I forgot to emphasize when you asked what the poll has given me, that it was very important because of my daughters. You know, you work a lot, travel a lot, and your family certainly bears some of this sacrifice. It’s not ideal, especially when the children are young. My daughters definitely knew I had an important job and a high-level position, but when you receive an award like “TOP Woman of the Czech Republic”, they see the success as a confirmation and recognition of your work. I was very happy that my older daughter, who is studying in the USA, happened to be in the country and could attend the event with me. That was really wonderful.

Michaela, has the topic of successful women, be it in business or in the public sector, always been a personal issue for you? MB: I’d say that yes, it has. I spent ten years announcing the most beautiful young lady in the Czech Republic, and I saw that their life stories were just beginning. With “TOP Women of the Czech Republic,” we’re working with accomplished, educated, women with lifelong successes who have achieved something. Actually, I can say that I’ve gone through that process myself. I had to advocate for myself at the start of the 90s, and naturally, this followed me through the periods when I worked in communications and public relations, for political parties, and on political campaigns. Later, when I entered business and media, I represented the female side of things and faced challenges because I was almost always in the minority. I honestly can’t remember working in a completely or predominantly female collective. I carried a kind of handicap from the early 90s with the stereotype: “She’s a young model so she can’t also be smart!” I was viewed a bit dismissively, as in: “You might belong at reception, but not in a managerial position.”

How did you deal with that? MB: I had to defend myself. I would basically tell those around me, "Please view me through the lens of what I studied and what I’m doing, not how I look." I believe that in the 90s, we took up this challenge—Katarína in one area and me in another. It’s natural that it found me, as it was already a topic in politics at the time. When I became the spokesperson for the Civic Democratic Party, everyone realized it wasn’t such a bad idea to have young and capable women in these types of positions. I founded the very first professional club of press spokespersons. There were a few of us young, educated, and enthusiastic women who firmly believed that even this field needed to be cultivated, promoted, and clearly defined. Are polls and rankings highlighting women’s successes still important today, in 2024? KK: Yes. It’s an important form of recognition by society. It brings to the forefront women who many in the business sector may not know. I can tell you a story about this. I once received a letter from two female artists who work with concrete and glass. They were going to an exhibition and asked if KKCG could help them. I told them this wasn’t my area, but that I’d be happy to buy something from them myself. I ended up asking them how they found me, and they responded that they saw me in this poll. MB: I agree— it’s a very important form of recognition by society. We must support women. When I interact with some of the young students we support through our foundation, I’m often surprised that after returning from their studies abroad, they still say that they encounter certain limitations here.

What kinds of limitations? MB: There are certain prejudices that persist. The recurring question is whether to choose family, or education and a career. Of course, many companies, especially multinational ones, have made progress on this front. They offer opportunities to women. They consider what a young woman who wants to both work and start a family will need. Unfortunately, the public sector hasn’t responded as flexibly. I’m not a pessimist, but there’s still a lot of work to do, for instance to improve the number of women holding political functions. Today, we have just one female minister, which speaks for itself. Even in the judiciary, there aren’t many women in top positions. Milena Králíčková, rector of Charles University, told me that out of the 26 rectors of our public universities, only four are women. But even if women already had equal pay and everything was in order, I still believe that we’d enjoy meeting and talking about our successes. KK: I’d also like to add one thing: we women suffer from a lack of confidence. And these recognitions help build that confidence. It’s very motivating for women! Once you’re in the top 20, you want to go even higher. At least, that’s how I felt after the first time I participated.

What’s the current situation regarding women in top positions in Czech businesses? KK: It certainly lags behind Western Europe and America. I studied and lived in the USA, so I saw this firsthand. The further east you go, the worse it gets. The Czech Republic has made significant improvements, but there's still work to be done.

How do you support the women around you? MB: Everyone leads by their own example—through the daily upbringing of their children, their lifelong approach to women, by giving opportunities to other women, or supporting similar polls. For example, the team I worked with for over ten years on the production of “Czech Miss”, as well as the associated agencies and PR teams, were mostly made up of women, although I didn’t realize it at the time. I basically went from working in male-dominated teams to almost entirely female ones. As a rule, I don’t judge people based on whether they’re men or women, but rather on how well they do or don’t perform in their roles. Over time, I realized that we as women tend to downplay our abilities. As in, we often end up thinking: “I shouldn't be the one leading, I’ll wait, I’d rather assist someone.” Even within companies, we tend to get up and make the coffee ourselves without questioning why we should be the ones doing it, especially when we're in senior positions like board members. It happened to me a few times, and I realized, "No way, guys. Either we can agree to have a secretary here, or, if we’re having a meeting, it won’t automatically mean I’m the one making the coffee. Maybe one of you could do it."

What do you think about quotas for women in management or on boards? MB: I’m more open minded in this regard, so I wouldn’t make quotas a strict requirement. I believe it’s a matter of development, and there should be more indirect social pressure. This means education, generational change, and gradually accepting what seemed impossible 30 years ago. From there, it’s up to individuals how they handle their positions and how they approach recruitment. KK: I don’t believe in quotas either. It’s more of an evolution—one woman’s success can inspire others, and organizations recognize that. Rather than quotas, it's essential to have a good support system so a woman can be a wife, a mother, and have a career. You can’t arrange that through laws or decrees, it comes from our social systems.

Do you think this changes from generation to generation? KK: I see that it’s changing a bit. I don’t see as much of a difference between men and women, but rather a generational shift. After the fall of communism, we were more ambitious; we wanted to work hard, achieve something, prove something. It was a historic opportunity. The next generation wants more balance—they want a better quality of life. Fundamentally, I think that’s right. But they also can’t expect to have everything for nothing—that’s the other extreme. Men today more often see that both partners can have careers and that they should support each other. I think that today, they are much more likely to support their wives’ careers.

MB: And humor has changed a lot as well, there are things that just wouldn’t be okay today. I remember the cruel jokes about relationships between men and women that were common when we were growing up in the 80s and 90s that would no longer be acceptable. That’s why I say my advocacy for women begins in the context of being a wife and mother. For instance, this includes how my husband treats me—that we collaborate, respect each other, help each other, we don’t stick to our traditional roles and we let things overlap. Our children see that they have a working mom who had four kids and managed to keep her job. We have two boys and two girls, and I can see that they’re confident; in my opinion, education is definitely changing things from generation to generation—they know how to speak up, and they’d have no problem telling their brother to clear the table, rather than the other way around.

We’ve calculated that our poll has had several thousand nominees and hundreds of awardees over the years. Is there a story that has stuck with you? MB: Every story was unique in some way, but not all were successful in the long term. So what does success really mean? Is it something that’s achieved once in a lifetime, with one business deal, or with one opportunity? I believe there are stories in the poll where we might look back and wonder if the awardees truly deserved it. I won’t name names, but it’s a valid question. On the other hand, the vast majority of award-winning women have been successful in the long term. KK: I’ve always been most impressed by the successes of women nominated from the public sector. I’m a Friedmanite; I believe in the free economy, where the best wins, so in the commercial sector, your work is ultimately recognized by the market, or at least by someone in it. But in the public sector, it’s not like that. They not only have to be good but also know how to navigate the bureaucratic system, and I have immense respect for anyone who manages to rise to the top in that environment. I remember Dr. Blanka Říhová, an 80-year-old researcher who talked passionately about her students—I found that fascinating. MB: Public service is almost like serving others. I’d call it a form of doing good. It’s a different dimension, one that’s timeless and deeper than just the annual results of one company. Of course, in the categories of entrepreneur and manager, numbers play a big role.

If we stay on the topic of business, who is your female inspiration, both in the Czech Republic and abroad? KK: I work in international financing, so I’ve always looked up to figures in the global banking sector. I had a mentor, Caroline Silver, who now serves on various boards in the UK. I often think about what she would do in certain situations I find myself in. I also follow Jane Fraser, the CEO of Citibank—I find the way she carries herself and how she thinks very inspiring. In our Czech-Slovak space, Zuzana Čaputová is very inspiring. MB: In recent years, as I’ve focused mainly on society and philanthropy, I had the chance to collaborate with and become personal friends, if I may call it that, with Madeleine Albright. That was a significant life experience and inspiration for me. Today, I collaborate with Mrs. de Klerk in South Africa, another woman who has lived through many interesting situations. She continued the legacy of her husband, a Nobel laureate, and is now trying to ensure that her country carries on in the direction of democracy. From afar, even though we don’t know each other personally, I admire the way that Michelle Obama presents herself. In the Czech Republic, I could name many people involved in philanthropy or education, for instance, Rector Milena Králíčková, with whom we signed a memorandum to simplify and expedite the nostrification process for Czech students returning from prestigious universities abroad. This is related both to our foundation and to the Kellner Family Foundation. That’s for the present; if you asked me about history, I’m fascinated by the strength of Milada Horáková’s character.

Katarína already mentioned former Slovak president Zuzana Čaputová, so it begs the question: when will the Czech Republic have its first female president? And who should it be? MB: That’s a great question. For years, I’ve been encouraging participants in our poll to go for it. I see at least one potential female president for each of my fingers, it’s just that no one has found the time or desire to enter Czech politics. The candidates are there, but maybe none of them currently have the inclination, energy, or time. I’m very grateful that Danuše Nerudová at least tried, and I think she managed it bravely and successfully. I believe it’s only a matter of time. The day will come, and I’m looking forward to it.

Lastly, could I ask both of you to send a message to Czech women reading these words? What message would you like to send them? KK: I have two thoughts. First, choose the right partner who will support you. Without that, it simply won’t work. MB: It doesn’t matter whether the partner is male or female. KK: Yes. And the second thing: you can’t have it all. You need to focus on something, find balance, determine what is most important, and live accordingly. MB: Don’t be afraid and prepare yourself for a long haul.